Criminy, people get this one wrong...

My interpretation (and many others) is that the passage only refers to the Old Testament commandment that a brother fulfill his duty to provide an heir for his brother. Onan shirked that duty and thus was condemned. It has nothing to do with masturbation.

Personally (and as a Christian), I think masturbation is a gray area, and not so cut and dried as some would like to make it be. In short, if you are not hurting anyone, including yourself, then enjoy!
I certainly do. ;)

the brother/wife deal is one of those things the christian community decides is outdated adn inappropriate for modern living and peaceful harmony, etc.

Have a look in the "religion" section of my blog if you want a good example of the whole religion/masturbation subject.

I wonder if those angels took pictures...and if I could get copies.

The ban on masturbation is just another way of making this life a bit more unlivable, forcing you into the arms of the church.

Remember: the only safe sex is self sex.

Having read your Daddy's Little Girl second entry, I can see how it all played out how you previously described. Although I was never a Catholic (since I come from Russia the major belief was Greek-Orthodox) I can still remember all the heavy emphasis on being a by-the-book good person. It weighed me down and made me feel like I was carrying weight for something I didn't want. The final straw was when I was 14 years old at my aunt's wedding in a church all the while me having an intense fever. I was feeling noxious so I sway a little because I can't keep myself up. My cousin, who is a brother to me since I have no siblings and ony 1 cousin (a devout christian) whispers in my ear "eddie, it's the devil trying to convert you to him. fight him off and stay with me."

It was that day that i realized that I could no longer follow this gigantic floating ball of cheese whiz that is God. If damnation is for me in the books, then bring it on, I would rather say I lived my life the way I do than succumb to a novel I'm to believe is the blueprint of my life.

hi skunx, thanks for your comment. i'll definitely check out your site. i didn't remove your link from my site.

I remember in Church we had a very heated discussion on a topic one time. The youth minister was rambling on and he said something that caught my attention. He read a passage from the Bible (I cannont quote it - don't remember exactly) and the interpretation he gave was that, "In God's eyes...thinking it is as bad as doing it." The verse had something to do with if you have unclean thoughts you have already sinned in God's eyes.
So...being the inquisitive person that I am...I asked, "Then why don't we just go ahead and do it? If we're already sinning by thinking of sex...doesn't this Bible passage confirm that we're no worse off by actually having sex?"

I mean...if I'm committing the same sin by thinking it...why not have my cake and enjoy it too?

I think I made the Youth minister cry that day. I later went on to be elected the President of the Youth Group at my church...against the elder's will of course.

That's my .02
KSims1868

ksims, great story. you must've been a popular kid in church after that one. ;)

It sure is easier being an atheist. Don't have to worry if masturbating is a sin or not. Can just enjoy :)

always love a story that questions the old testaments and the Church - grins - more facts to argue w dad... muahahahaha... lol.

in my teenage church-goin' time - the only thing Father Mewo cld say is - "if you sin, you go to hell" - so you know -

bless me father...

Well, it's pretty simple, actually. To have lustful thoughts for someone who is not your spouse is sinful. In God's eyes, adulterous thoughts are the same as physically committing adultery.

Masturbation generally includes lustful, or adulterous, thoughts. Therefore the act is viewed as sinful. It's no joke. This is serious stuff.

A lot of conservative Christians, Catholics, Mormons, and the like have that same misinterpretation. So, the word onanism now is used commonly to mean masturbation (the Japanese have borrowed the word as well in onaru).

However, that really isn't Onan's sin. He "spilled his seed upon the ground" . . . yes . . . but you will note that it was during intercourse. Onanism is coitus interruptus.

Onan's sin was a failure to fulfill his obligations in terms of levirate, the practice that when a man's brother dies with no children, he is obliged to marry the widow and sire a son by that wife and then to designate that child as his brother's heir. This is a very serious obligation, particularly as it is practiced when an elder son has no heir.

Onan was considered selfish in that he did not wish to fulfill his duties and so avoided impregnating his new wife, his brother's widow, through one of the age-old birth control methods of withdrawal prior to ejaculation. This is hardly masturbation.

The story of Judah and Tamar is another example of the levirate. Tamar's husband dies and she is given to the next son who also dies, eventually the father of the brothers refuses to give her on to the last son as he sees her as bad luck but the tradition mandates that he should do so as a widow needs a son to take care of her in her old age. Tamar poses as a temple prostitute and has sex with Judah to get the seed planted so to speak. Note that Judah did not sin by going to a prostitute but Tamar sinned by pretending to be one and having sex with someone who was not her husband (adultery in this age only applied to married women).

OMG... you're such a hoot!! That was absolutely classic.. love your site!!

Is that a Beastie Boy's reference? I like it!

Catholic Church and Old Testament

Your post about how the Catholic Church bases its opposition to masterbation on a passage from Genesis is wrong. The Cathoic Church's opposition to masterbation ( and similarly, homesexuality) is NOT based on the Old Testament. In fact almost nothing in Catholic theology is based on the Old Testament. Catholic rules on sexauality are based on the traditon of Natural Law. Protestants look to the Bible as the only source of religious truth. Cathoics look to human reason (Natural Law) as an additional source of religious truth. People who were raised Protestant and are now non-religious are always pointing the Old Testament as the "basis" for rules about sexuality. That is not the case in the Catholic tradition. Cathoic rules on sexaulity owe more to Aristotle than to the Bible.

you guys are great. thanks for the enlightening discussion! just in case anyone is concerned, i was raised a protestant and not a catholic. a lot of your experiences sound similar tho.

I think that passage from Genesis might refer more to the specific situation than the act itself. I’m not sure what the outlook on masturbation is, though you’re supposed to avoid lustful thoughts (as they are a sin in themselves by most interpretations), and those go hand-in-hand with the act.

Another quote for the anti-masturbation comes from chapter 15 of Leviticus in the Torah (or the Old Testament) I quoe here from mechron-mamre.org which has a nice online version translated into English.

15,1 And the LORD spoke unto Moses and to Aaron, saying: 15,2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them: When any man hath an issue out of his flesh, his issue is unclean. 15,3 And this shall be his uncleanness in his issue: whether his flesh run with his issue, or his flesh be stopped from his issue, it is his uncleanness. 15,4 Every bed whereon he that hath the issue lieth shall be unclean; and every thing whereon he sitteth shall be unclean. 15,5 And whosoever toucheth his bed shall wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and be unclean until the even.

And so on and so on and so on. The confusion here is often a combination of inacuracy of translation and mis-understanding of the Jewish religion. The "issue" is often thought to be seminal fluid. This is incorrect. The issue referrs to blood. Judaism is a virulently anti-blood religion. For example, kosher slaughtering is performed by a quick slice across the neck of the animal, alowing all of the blod to be drained out. Men are not alowed to have sex with women on their period because of the blood. In fact, there used to be stories about Jews murdering babies to put blood into the matzoh during the passover feast. Needles to say, Jews were particularly aghast at this story.

What it DOES say about seminal fluid is a litle further on: 15,16 And if the flow of seed go out from a man, then he shall bathe all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even. 15,17 And every garment, and every skin, whereon is the flow of seed, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the even. 15,18 The woman also with whom a man shall lie carnally, they shall both bathe themselves in water, and be unclean until the even. {P}

In other words- don't pull a Monica Lewinsky. After sex or masturbation, etc, wash yourself off and your clothing. Fair enough, right? But it does not say that you're not alowed to masturbate.

Oddly enough, this passage is also used to argue against pre-marital sex. I don't really understand how one could interpret this pasage in such a manner, but I suppose that there are just diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks.

Love the blog, by the way.

andrew, thanks for the jewish perspective. one of my friends told me that a lot of the old jewish laws were established for public health reasons. even tho people didn't know about germs back then, maybe someone made the connection that you could get infections and stuff like that with blood?

Yah. This is one of the reasons for why Jews were sometimes pointed at during plagues. While they would catch them, they were les likely to, due to things like washing their hands, and taking weekly baths.

I got introduced to the concept of the three/five second rule late in life, and found it rather bizarre. If I dropped something onto the bottom of a monkey cage, I wouldn't want to eat it. Generally, the idea in Judaism is less of a "It's dirty, don't touch it, God says so" and more "Don't touch it, because it's dirty"

As for why the cleanliness- I suspect it comes from many factors. One thing is that Jewish life is directed by not only the Torah, but also by traditions. Now, how some of these come about, people may not know. Some things are interpretations. At one point, it says "Do not boil a kid in it's mother's milk, that is cruel" A kid, by the way, meaning a baby goat. This comes from when the origional temple had been taken over and defiled by the Greeks (I think it was the Greeks- I could be wrong), and one of the things they did was just that, and it was seen as being cruel. Fair enough. This rule, however, turned into "Have two sets of dishes, one for milk, one for meat, don't eat them together, wait four hours after you've eaten meat until you have milk, and one hour after milk before you have meat" Go figure.

Wait a minute, all this talk of "spilling seed"...what about THE LADIES?

1) We don't spill seed masturbating and God made us so many lovely toys...it would be a real shame not to indulge.

2) If the spillage of seed is the issue, is it a sin to menstruate? Or is it only a sin if you somehow get it all over the ground?

Just thought I'd throw that one out there.

Actually, Kristen, there are all kinds of laws in the Old Testament (er, the Torah) about how menstruating women are dirty and offlimits. You're not supposed to touch them, or you get defiled, and so on... I wouldn't say mestruation is a "sin" but it's certainly described in negative terms, and probably associated with the sin of Eve or some such nonsense, in the original context of the old Jewish tradition.

As for the Catholic perspective on sex, I'd suppose it also owes something to the writings of Augustine. You're right that Catholic theology is based on "reason" more than on Old Testament writings, and that it's more often old (and out-of-date, somewhat misinformed) philosophers whose "Reason" they base their precepts on. The Protestant misinterpretations amuse educated Catholics to some degree; after all, this was part of why the Church fought so hard to deny people access to the text of the Bible in the vernacular. (Other reasons having to do with wealth and power and centralized control of the theology and so on... and I'm speaking more of the Church in England than on the continent, which I know less about. I'm thinking specifically of the Wycliffities and the mobilization of Canon Law against any liturgical materials in England as late as the early 1400s... Archbishop Arundel comes prominently to mind, but it's been a while since I studied the period.)

Anyway, this stranglehold backfired, making all kinds of proto-Protestants even more eager to read the Bible and see whether they could furnish their own interpretations... which they did eventually do, after Luther, but of course this was after several translations of the texts and with little of the context... which is exactly how most people seem to read the Bible today, regardless of the AVAILABILITY of useful contextual annotations and information. Which is sad, sad, sad.

Me, I don't read the book, have no worries about it as I'm unconcerned with it; but man, if it's so damned important, wouldn't one care to base your interpretations on meanings of the words in the original texts, instead of in the subjective translations of whoever (plural) happened to slap one's particular edition together?

You would think. But of course plenty of people use the book to justify their own opinions, and it's full of content that can be used in that way. So, on it goes...

A point. On the other hand, even in the origional, there are still differant ways to read things. On yet another hand, I must say that the idea of not beling allowed to make m own interpretation, but instead having it simply fed to me is somewhat ridiculous. Of course, I think about how many people decide that the inerpretation is that they ought to go out and kill people.

And so often it's men. I think it's because guys read the bible like they do women- we have to learn that "no" does not mean "yes"

'Course, I'm just an atheistic new york jew. What do I know?

Hey! The translation into the Cherokee language
for the 'm' word is: "pour honey onto your heart"?

Cool, huh?

BTW, theres an entire book out that is nothing more than a tome and dedication composed of hundreds of listings of euphenisms for the 'm' word.

Everything from 'spanking elvis' to 'bop your baloney' etc

PS I'll thrown this in....funniest , most funniest! radio commercial I
ever heard was for Trojan brand condoms..it contained a final announcer voice over at the end if it which said at the last possible moment in an fractured iota of a second: "partner not included." Heh heh lol : )

doyougetitdoyougetitdoyougetit...oh nevermind.

Ciao babes.

I haven't received a definite answer as to yes or no yet. I was raised catholic and traumatized as a catholic. Our church is NOT perfect. I love her very much but, am aware of her flaws. I think this topic is appropriate. Masturbation is NOT a sin to me. Sins are those of the world. Pick up a newspapert or just listen to the news etc. AS long as you do not hurt anyone then masturbation is just fine. He mad us with these desires. And if channelled in a constructive manner then what's the harm. Stay out of my sandbox. If I cannot play with the little boys because of fornication then let me play alone. I've been celibate for 9 yrs. Trust me I know what I speak of. Remember "Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" AND one more thing, don't judge me, you don't have that right, only HE does!

I always disregard anything the church elders had to say about sex and masturbation since they used the King James version which is a wildly inacurate translation of the original text. My philosophy is to treat everyone well and to rest them as you would want to be treated.

Since childhood we were wired to Masturbate and urge continues while single, married and into senior years of life. In my opinion, religion has nothing to do with the act for it does no harm to anyone. We should all live with the fact that this is a normal way of life and not judge as to its merits. It offers a great release of tension that medications cannot provide and good health namely, the prostate. I can only speak for myself and old age does not prevent me from Maturbating several times a week.

This all struck me as being a bit disturbing...it is the way of the world though i suppose...i pasted this from a letter i wrote to someone...it partially explains my take on the situation.
Ctrl+V
A while back i found something out...and its HUGE. Vibes are real.
Everyone has a vibe. I know this sounds inexplicably odd, but hear me
out. I made this discovery by "accident," I used to do all sorts of
things to test myself...for example doing things like sticking my hand
in ice cold water for prolonged periods of time..all types of things
that tested my will....i wanted to possess unwavering self control.
It is in this that i found out how to influence people in a way i
never thought possible. Brace yourself....i decided a worthy
challenge to test my will would be to not....masturbate. (i was also
not in a relationship at this time...and this is before i was what i
call a 'pious Christian") Admittedly, it was difficult at
first...however, i started to notice things which i thought were very
peculiar. It seemed to start at around 2 weeks out when i was into
it....(turns out for this to work you can't even lose the slightest
bit of pre-ejaculant..you have to be totally in control) My 'vibe'
slowly grew until I had a presence that was unlike anything i had ever
imagined was possible. After about a month my 'vibe' was through the
roof. It's evergrowing presence and reality became more and more
obvious to me during my daily interactions w/people. Men that were
roughly twice my size were actually intimidated of me when
realistically there was no reason for them to be (i am a man of peace)
A better way to articultate this is that they respected me...bc i
deserved respect...they really had no choice in the matter. I also
noticed that girls were much more interested in me...so much that it
was surprising...seriously....to a degree that i could not
believe...still can't, i'm still in awe by it all really. It was a
little over a half a year that i found this out...and i've slipped up
numerous times...and everytime i do...i regret it deeply...i would be
stripped of my mojo and everything that it entails...men would not
respect me..in fact they would openly disrespect me for all to
see..girls only looked once and walked right bye...it was
saddening...but when i would begin to get it all back again...ohh how
empowering it felt. Yes, i am a Christian now, and the "vibe" i speak
of ties into my beliefs...and quite honestly...to me...it makes a lot
of sense. It even says in the bible 'blessed is the man who resists
temptation'...or take into account the phrase "gird up your loins"
(referring to clothing) it is an idiom that basically states that you
should summon up your inner resources in preparation for action.
Take a moment to consider this:

Your very existence, the animals, the children, the acorns falling to
the ground, creation is the central theme to life.

Mojo/Vibe/Presence/LifeForce whatever you want to call it....There
really is no way to describe what i am speaking of. The only way to
know what i am speaking of is to experience it for yourself.

"Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and show thee great and mighty
things, which thou knowest not." Jeremiah 33:3

i think many of the writers here are trying to Justify themselves because they wanted to masturbate.The book of leviticus do talk about how we become unclean by emission of semen ,which further instructed us to wash and clean our selves with water.I came across some christian website from america which teaches the youth that masturbation is Ok.but those kind of teaching can bring a great damage to our christian youth.God called us to be holy and how can we encourage our youth to do such thing.Jesus teaches us in the sermon on the mount not to look at the women lustfully and how many of you think that you can masturbate wihtout fantasizing a women or without having any thoughts.Thats not possible.The Apostle Paul teaches us to control our lust and to have a self control over our body .So ,we need to realized as a christian that we need to keep our body holy ,for our body is the temple of the Holy Spirt.